Three Families - de Ridale, Ridel and Riddell

The de Ridale’s, the Ridel’s and the Riddell’s are often confused with one another, which has led to a large number of people having pedigree’s which have integrated all of these three families into one – this is not accurate. When we look at the Y-DNA they are very different and when we look at just the genealogy there is very little, if any connections amongst these three families.

To try to ensure no confusion occurs when I discuss these three families in the remainder of this entry, I will refer to the Ridel’s as the ‘Bassett-Riddell’s’ (for more information about why I use this please view in the post blog titled ‘Basset-Ridel’), the de Ridale’s as ‘de Ridale’ and the Riddell’s as the ‘Riddell’s of Riddell’.

Where does the confusion come from?

From what I can tell this confusion is down to two main reasons – first, the misinterpretations of records and assumptions made mainly in the 1800s and second, the surname Riddell.

Misinterpretations and Assumptions

During mainly the 1800s several histories were written and within these the misinterpretations of records and assumptions were made which combined the Basset-Riddell’s and the de Ridale families into one family and gave the origin of the Basset-Riddell family to both families. This is not correct, there were a couple of the histories that did explain that these family were separate families (have different origins), but these have mainly been ignored.

A summary of these two family’s origins is that the Basset-Riddell’s came from Normandy with William the conqueror into England and then one line of this family went into Scotland while the rest of the family stayed in England. The de Ridale’s were a part of the Anglo-Saxon society in mainly Yorkshire but also a little in Northumberland and one inheritance line went into Scotland while the rest stayed in the Yorkshire/Northumberland area of England.

I believe the confusion between these two families occurred when people in the 1800s viewed records from the 1100s in Scotland and saw two similar surnames mainly occurring in the same area of Scotland, in Roxburghshire, and both being closely associated with King David. Thus, they assumed they must be the one family.

There was however a nuanced difference when it came to the surnames, in original records the de Ridale’s always used ‘de’ before the surname where the Basset-Riddell’s never used it. I have found that this rule is now a little blurred. When I have viewed several records that were transcribed in the 1800s mainly the ‘de’ has been put in to Bassett-Riddell charters but there are a couple where the ‘de’ was left out for the de Ridale’s. The transcriber’s knowledge influenced what is written. I know this because I have viewed the original documents for a number of these transcriptions and seen the ‘de’ not there or there where it was put in or missed out in the transcription.

The Riddell surname

The Basset-Riddell’s surname morphed over the centuries into being spelt Riddell, in several transcribed records the de Ridale’s surname is written as de Riddell. Also the Riddell’s of Riddell have been given a history of both or one or the other of the Basset-Riddell’s and de Ridale’s, I believe because of the Riddell name and lands (for more information about this please view in the family story section, the story titled ‘Who are the Riddell’s of Riddell’ – at this stage this story is not completed and uploaded onto this website).

When you looked through various documents transcribed (mainly in the 1800s) involving all of these three families you can see the prior knowledge of the transcriber heavily influenced the spelling of all three surnames. More than often, you will end up with all three families having their surname spelt Riddell. However, when you view the original version that is not how they have been spelt. Examples for the Basset-Riddell’s original surname spellings include Ridel, Ridell. Examples for the de Ridale’s original surname spellings include de Ridale, de Ryedale. Examples for the Riddell’s of Riddell original surname spellings include Riddale, Redale, Riddolle, Riddaile, Reddaill, Riddall, Riddaill, Ryddell, Riddil, Riddel, Riddle (there are other spellings).

What does Y-DNA say about these families?

Y-DNA also supports two of these three families being distinct from each other and being unrelated. Very broadly the Basset-Riddell’s Y-DNA falls under the R1b haplogroup branch P312 and the Riddell’s of Riddell Y-DNA falls under the R1b haplogroup branch U106. The SNPs P312 and U106 shared a common male ancestor around 5000 of years ago (give or take), which is long before both families were in Scotland for the first time, which was more than 900 years ago. At this point in time the Y-DNA for the de Ridale’s is unknown.

It has long been believed that the Riddell’s of Riddell were direct descendants of the de Ridale family however genealogical research and Y-DNA results has made this unclear and at this point in time suggests that this is not accurate (for more information about this please view in the family story section, the story titled ‘Who are the Riddell’s of Riddell’ – at this stage this story is not completed and uploaded onto this website).

de Ridale Y-DNA

The issue with locating the Y-DNA of the de Ridale family is that the lines of inheritance seem to have all gone female. That being said (which also adds to the problem) is that there are a number of male lines that have never been traced that could result in a present-day man carrying the de Ridale Y-DNA.

Another issue with trying to locate the Y-DNA is that you once you look through original charters you realise that the de Ridale family changed their surnames regularly to the main land they controlled/were associated with. I have seen some scholars state that was what Anglo-Saxon’s did. At this stage in England, in the Yorkshire and Northumberland area, I have found the following surnames being used by the de Ridale family – de Ridale/Ridala/Ridall/Ryedale/Ridalus, de Habton/Habbeton/Habtona/Habbetona/Abeton/Abbeton/Abiton, de Brawby/Brageby, de Ryton/Riton, de Buleford/Bowforth, de Grimston/Grimstona and de Calveton/Cawton. The main line of inheritance in Scotland settled on using the de Ridale (various spelling) surname and the main line of inheritance in England settled on using the de Habton (various spelling) surname.

Hopefully one day with continued research we can trace the de Ridale family to a living male and he will be willing to Y-DNA test so we can find out once and for all what the Y-DNA for the de Ridale family is. That way we can know with certainty if the Riddell’s of Riddell (and the Rutherford male line they come out of) Y-DNA links with the de Ridale family.